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| | Author | Messages | |
itsadryheat
Posts:239
 | | 08/05/2008 8:53 AM |
 Alert | Okay, thanks love@hm for explaining things as you have learned and understand them.
I do have a question about your last statement though...do you believe, based on your religious belief, that there is more than one way to heaven? Is this something that LDS teach? | | | |
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| | itsadryheat
Posts:239
| | 08/05/2008 8:53 AM |
Alert | Okay, thanks love@hm for explaining things as you have learned and understand them.
I do have a question about your last statement though...do you believe, based on your religious belief, that there is more than one way to heaven? Is this something that LDS teach? | | | |
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| | love@hm
Posts:523
| | 08/05/2008 9:12 AM |
Alert | | More than one way to heaven? If I in anyway eluded to this, I am sorry. No, the only way to heaven is through Christ. | | | |
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| | DaybyDay
Posts:314
| | 08/05/2008 9:21 AM |
Alert | So the assertion that the video was 95% untrue was not true. It would seem that most of it was true.
Can it be conceded, that these things were taught (celestial sex, people becoming gods, dark skinned neutral people) at some point in LDS history but may not be readily taught now? Maybe these things were taught in the early days of the religion and they just aren't taught in the services at today's church nor do modern day LDS know about them. | | | |
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| | DaybyDay
Posts:314
| | 08/05/2008 9:23 AM |
Alert | that MS Christianity varies so much it is hard to get a grasp on it.
What do you mean by this? I might contend that LDS belief varies greatly as well. I mean, I know that you all teach and learn the same things across the countries, but if you were to ask different LDS people about some of the things mentioned in this cartoon, or maybe in other forums, I would contend you might get a differing degree of understanding. | | | |
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| | JasonY
Posts:3311
| | 08/05/2008 10:04 AM |
Alert | I don't know of any other Christian that would say Jesus and Satan were brothers. That is crazy. The popular belief is that Lucifer was God's favorite angel, but Lucifer got greedy and wanted to unseat God. Then a war etc etc.
It's very conflicting/confusing when a Mormon denies something, and then admits it a couple of posts later. If that's what you believe, that's what you believe. No biggie. But nothing on that list can be derived from the Bible no matter how you cut it. I don't see the name "Elohim" in the Bible, if it is there show me and I will be quiet.
I have also heard of most of those things on the list so the cartoon is irrelevant. When many people have heard of these things, and we come from all over the country, why deny if some of the beliefs are true? Again, no biggie if that is what you believe. This secretive nonsense is silly. Makes one think there is more darker secrets in the closet. But every organized religion has this so again no biggie. | |
"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black | |
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|  | love@hm
Posts:523
| | 08/05/2008 10:08 AM |
Alert | The video was made in a way to "unveil" the LDS truths. Included in it were lies. Blatent lies. The tone was one that led the viewer to assume LDS church some miserable entity. The best way to make the lies seem true is to include truth with the lies - true statements made out to be heinous or over-exaggerated, using terms like celestial sex (which, BTW, we don't know HOW spirit children are created) The tone of voice in the commentator, the music was designed to be outright deceptive to those who are willing to be deceived. The fact that the lies are there should immediately discredit the video.
Jcarp, did not say 95% lies. What he said was "95% distorted, off -base or wrong." This I agree with. There most certainly were truths - truths which were there to shock and to be made worse by lies.
There is not anything in the history of the church that is hidden from members. There has never been any teachings on celestial sex OR neutral dark-skinned people.
that MS Christianity varies so much it is hard to get a grasp on it.
What do you mean by this? I might contend that LDS belief varies greatly as well. I mean, I know that you all teach and learn the same things across the countries, but if you were to ask different LDS people about some of the things mentioned in this cartoon, or maybe in other forums, I would contend you might get a differing degree of understanding.
I explained what I meant in the following sentence.
"I need to study it out with each separate denomination - otherwise there is really only one thing they all seem to truly have in common - that Christ died on the cross for our salvation. . . most of the time the trinity is close to the same, but that is so confusing to me - I can't tell you if it really is or not"
There are differences between Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic, etc. In discussions those differences come out. They are not the same - so grasping the concepts become difficult.
Where the LDS beliefs are - there are areas where we can have lively discussions because revelation as not been given (ie Adam and a belly button, Christ having wives - etc) BUT in terms of TEACHINGS there is no difference, but different people will understand more than others. That is why it is best to look at LDS websites, ask for references, etc. I have seen some fun discussions between members and what they think is what. Don't even get a group together to discuss caffeine and tanic acid  However, if the revelation as been given there is only ever ONE teaching. . .
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| | JasonY
Posts:3311
| | 08/05/2008 10:10 AM |
Alert | Posted By love@hm on 08/05/2008 10:08 AM
There are differences between Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic, etc. In discussions those differences come out. They are not the same - so grasping the concepts become difficult. The differences between Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, and Catholics are very small compared to Mormon beliefs versus the Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, and Catholics beliefs. | |
"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black | |
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| | love@hm
Posts:523
| | 08/05/2008 10:18 AM |
Alert | I fail to see where we deny it and then admit it.
You have to understand where our belief of Satan is. To us, angels are HUMAN they are the same as us. We are all spirit brother and sisters - angels in one sense or another before and after birth. . . It is because MS Christians believe angels are different creations that *I* believe they struggle so much with the idea of Satan being Jesus's brother.
While the connection is there - we don't go teaching our children "Satan is your older spirit brother" We do teach them that Christ is.
It's all about tone. We aren't "hiding" anything - we've explained everything everytime someone asks. About the only thing that hasn't been covered here is what happens in the temple - and THAT is SACRED and will not be discussed. I don't discuss that with my children. . .
I do not know where the occurance of Elohim is in the scriptures. HOWEVER, I know it must exist (perhaps in the Hebrew) because a member of the Jewish faith brought up to me (elsewhere) they use that term. . . We know it, but we do not say it on a regular basis - commonly it is Heavenly Father.
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| | love@hm
Posts:523
| | 08/05/2008 10:19 AM |
Alert | The differences between Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, and Catholics are very small compared to Mormon beliefs versus the Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, and Catholics beliefs.
YES, but my statement was in reference to the differences between MS Christian churches - not the differences between the LDS church and everyone else. | | | |
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| | JasonY
Posts:3311
| | 08/05/2008 10:28 AM |
Alert | Posted By love@hm on 08/05/2008 10:18 AM
I do not know where the occurance of Elohim is in the scriptures. HOWEVER, I know it must exist (perhaps in the Hebrew) because a member of the Jewish faith brought up to me (elsewhere) they use that term. . . We know it, but we do not say it on a regular basis - commonly it is Heavenly Father.
I will ask my Jewish friend to confirm the Elohim thing for us then. I think they do not speak God's name, "Jehovah" is used not Elohim. I will check. Good question. | |
"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black | |
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| | qwerty
Posts:155
| | 08/05/2008 10:48 AM |
Alert | itsa: Don't try to paint me as intolerant. You do not know me.
I'm not trying to paint you as anything. And obviously I only have to go off of what you say here on these threads. I meant it as a sincere comment.
Who is painting whom? You guys focus on posting Anti-Mormon literature on here that puts LDS beliefs in a half-truth, misleading, and dispicable way. Who is painting whom? | | | |
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| | EEE
Posts:374
| | 08/05/2008 10:49 AM |
Alert | In the Hebrew Jehovah = LORD Elohim = God For an example, we see when God spoke to Moses he referred to himself as Jehovah Elohim in Hebrew or LORD God in english . Exodus 3:15 Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations From my conversation with moinmoin a while back, I believe he stated that they believed Jehovah and Elohim were separate gods. Please correct me if I am wrong moinmoin. | |
Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/
But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/
The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/
to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/ | |
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| | qwerty
Posts:155
| | 08/05/2008 11:27 AM |
Alert | | JasonY I have also heard of most of those things on the list so the cartoon is irrelevant. When many people have heard of these things, and we come from all over the country, why deny if some of the beliefs are true? Again, no biggie if that is what you believe. This secretive nonsense is silly. Makes one think there is more darker secrets in the closet. But every organized religion has this so again no biggie.
Who is denying that some of these things are true? Who is keeping secrets? Please point out where you feel we have mislead/lied to readers on these threads.
The point is, this video twists certain beliefs, throws in a few lies, and people take it as truth. | | | |
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| | DaybyDay
Posts:314
| | 08/05/2008 11:44 AM |
Alert | Again, these things may have been taught as truth at the beginning of the religion, but may not be taught now. It seems as though you all are acting like this is the first time any of this has been mentioned (Jesus/Lucifer as brothers, celestial sex-whatever!; and men being able to become gods themselves). Its not! I am certain that if we did a little digging, we might find many of those concepts in the cartoon were taught at some point...although they may not be readily and openly taught now.
I agree with JasonY. Whether they were taught before or now, just say...yea, that was a common belief at suchandsuch point, but that's not what the church teaches now. I’d say 95% of this was distorted, off base, or wrong. According to the answers given, 95% of it was not wrong. You may not like the manner by which it was conveyed (cartoon) or how it was conveyed (the voice), but most of what was said was true. | | | |
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| | itsadryheat
Posts:239
| | 08/05/2008 11:51 AM |
Alert | I say we do a little web search and alitle digging on some of those concepts shown in the video. If in fact, these things were inaccurate, then simple research will show it. Since we already know that what was said in the verse wasn't Biblical, then going to the Bible (while it is a great help always) may not be a help for this...since it has already been admitted that LDS beliefs are not always Biblical. | | | |
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| | EEE
Posts:374
| | 08/05/2008 12:00 PM |
Alert | The way the video explained many of the beliefs, the video is flat out wrong. They didn't have their facts straight when they presented it. For most of their points, their end result was correct, but the explanation or reason behind it was inaccurate. It needed to be cleaned up here and there to become accurate. I think that is why many here think the video is accurate, because they recognize the main points. I think that is also why the LDS members weren't sure how to respond, because there was misrepresentations in the truths. I felt responsible for clearing that up since I posted the video. One thing I hate is misrepresentation, regardless of what side it is. The reason I truly posted the video is because I thought it was funny on different levels. Here are the few things I did find funny: 1) The narrators voice through out the video 2) The old footage at the end of the video 3) The poor presentation of the Mormon's belief. 4) Animation - and the look on some of the character's faces. LOL It was so bad I thought it was entertaining, and I thought even the LDS members would laugh at it.  | |
Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/
But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/
The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/
to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/ | |
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| | itsadryheat
Posts:239
| | 08/05/2008 12:13 PM |
Alert | still checking...I think I will look only those things said to be "false", though may not post it here...just for my own knowedge | | | |
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| | love@hm
Posts:523
| | 08/05/2008 12:29 PM |
Alert | ITSA,
Searching is good, but please, be wise about where you look. Go to non-biased websites, or better yet to the LDS church sites.
www.fairlds.org covers all this information. They are there with the TRUTH of the teaching.
EEE, Thank you for your post. If it is any consolation, I was looking forward to it, thinking it would be a spoof - lots of jello, maybe a fireside with cookies - LOL! | | | |
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| | JCarp
Posts:47
| | 08/05/2008 12:54 PM |
Alert | Jcarp, did not say 95% lies. What he said was "95% distorted, off -base or wrong." This I agree with. There most certainly were truths - truths which were there to shock and to be made worse by lies.
Thank you love@hm, that's exactly what I was trying to convey. | | | |
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