Fair
52°F
High: 73°F
Low: 44°F
Currently : Sunny
13 Oct 2008
> Five-day forecast
 Search
   
 
   

Business Directory
Add your Business
Coupons
Add your Coupon
Classifieds
Add Your Classified
Subject: Cartoon on Mormonism
Prev Next
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Page 1 of 41234 > >>
AuthorMessages
EEEUser is Offline

Posts:374


08/04/2008 5:29 PM Alert 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo

 

I never heard many things this cartoon presented, but it's entertaining none the less.

Is it true that Mormons believe Jesus had children from 3 wives while here on earth?


Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/
But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/
The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/
to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/
BionicbunnyUser is Offline

Posts:594


08/04/2008 5:53 PM Alert 
Is it true that mormons believe that black people are bad and white people are good?!
Is it true that mormons believe that indians (native americans) are Isrealites? LOL!
love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:486

08/04/2008 6:26 PM Alert 
Entertaining in a "Let's see who will believe the lies" kind of way.

Wow! You'd think being a 6 and 7 generation Mormon I would be allowed this kind of information, but I'm learning it for the first time

All joking aside, that was most definitely a little truth mingled with a lot of hidden agendas and lies.

To answer your questions:

We have NO knowledge of whether Jesus was married on Earth - let alone whether He had children with one or more of them. Sure sounded more like DaVinci Code stuff to me.

Along those lines: Women's salvation is not dependant on her husband's righteousness. Bishop's do not counsel (or are wrong in doing so) that a divorce take place due to someone's activity level within the church - in fact, usually they counsel in the opposite direction.

We do not believe God came to earth to have sex at any point. We also do not believe God was 'Adam'. Which was eluded to in the cartoon. This was covered in a different thread though (the sex part).

We do not know how many wives God has, we do know there is one, perhaps there are more, but that has not been revealed.

We do not believe that black people are bad. I have never heard the whole "those who were neutral" aspect before. . . The idea that only valiant spirit are born into LDS families is also only rumor - which unfortunately has been perpetuated on occasion by members (&^**&*) It is NOT true or taught by the church.

We do believe Native Americans are descendants of Lehi who's family traveled from Jerusalem. We do not believe they are ONLY Isrealites - they would have married and had children with other races as well -
itsadryheatUser is Offline

Posts:233

08/04/2008 6:40 PM Alert 

We do not believe God came to earth to have sex at any point. We also do not believe God was 'Adam'. Which was eluded to in the cartoon. This was covered in a different thread though (the sex part).


I distinctly remember a conversation about chromosomes and some quotes listed from Mormon founders about a physical union between God and Mary...which was how they explained the "virgin" birth.

We do not know how many wives God has, we do know there is one,


HOw do you know this?

This cartoon?? I have seen it before (a long time ago).  Love@hm are you saying that you have not ever seen this video before?  So the Mormon church is denying that these are core beliefs of Mormonism?  In my own reading on LDS, I have read these things that the cartoon says are part of Mormonism belief, so I don't think it truthful when it is said there is a "little bit of truth" in this video.

JCarpUser is Offline

Posts:39


08/04/2008 8:30 PM Alert 

This cartoon??  I have seen it before (a long time ago).  Love@hm are you saying that you have not ever seen this video before?  So the Mormon church is denying that these are core beliefs of Mormonism?  In my own reading on LDS, I have read these things that the cartoon says are part of Mormonism belief, so I don't think it truthful when it is said there is a "little bit of truth" in this video.


That explains where you have gotten so many of your false notions on Mormons!!!  Now I understand!!!

For further learning on the Jewish belief, might I recommend the writing of a prominent Muslim.  He should give you a totally unbiased review on what they believe. 

itsadryheatUser is Offline

Posts:233

08/04/2008 8:40 PM Alert 

That explains where you have gotten so many of your false notions on Mormons!!! Now I understand!!!


No, what is explains is that I have seen it before.

My false notions? Well, I have done research on my own, read books, visited websites, asked questions (and not just on the website, but of my actual neighbors and parents of my kids classmates), and read answers...so THIS is where I have learned what LDS believe v. what Christians believe. The differences are pretty obvious to anyone who cares to really research them.  Prior to moving to AZ, honestly, I didn't care.  I didn't have LDS neighbors and my kids didn't go to school with LDS kids.  So, when I moved here, it was important to me to get an understanding of what my neighbor believed and how it was different from what I believed.  WHY? So, that I could know the false doctrine when I heard it and be able to teach it to my children.  WHY? Because the Bible says that we need to be aware of the false teachings out there.  WHY? So we don't get caught up in it ourselves.

So are YOU denying that some of what was mentioned in the video are not core beliefs of the LDS religion?  So the video was completely off base in what it was saying about who Mormons believe God is, Jesus is...the origins of the America's?  All of that was completely wrong?

(Do I sound angry?) Well, I am.  I am an intelligent person, who can think rationally, read, and make reasonable decisions based on what I have learned, and I resent the fact that you would think that I base what I believe about ANYTHING on a cartoon.

JCarpUser is Offline

Posts:39


08/04/2008 8:57 PM Alert 
So are YOU denying that some of what was mentioned in the video are not core beliefs of the LDS religion?


Yes!

So the video was completely off base in what it was saying about who Mormons believe God is, Jesus is...the origins of the America's? All of that was completely wrong?


I’d say 95% of this was distorted, off base, or wrong.
JCarpUser is Offline

Posts:39


08/04/2008 8:59 PM Alert 

...yet for some reason, you do not believe us when we try to point out the deception. You keep on going back to those things you were taught in error about the LDS faith, even after we point out what we truly believe. It is as if you want to believe the lie.

itsadryheatUser is Offline

Posts:233

08/04/2008 9:03 PM Alert 
How is it taught in error. Some (more than some) of what was said in that video has been admitted here (not on this forum exactly, but others) by LDS members. Some of what was said on the video has been admitted to my face by LDS. So....what do you say to that?
itsadryheatUser is Offline

Posts:233

08/04/2008 9:04 PM Alert 

So you tell me (all of us)...once again, because apparently I (we) are in error. What exactly did that video say was "95% distored, off base, or wrong?"

I'll watch it again.  And make note of each point it makes and then bring them here for examination.

itsadryheatUser is Offline

Posts:233

08/04/2008 9:33 PM Alert 

Ok, so True or False

1) Does Mormonism teach that trillions of planets scattered throughout the cosmos were ruled by gods who were once human?

2) ...that an unidentified god & goddess wife had a spirit child named Elohim?

3)...teach that Elohim was born to human parents, who gave him a physical body?

4)...through obedience to Mormon teaching, Elohim proved himself worthy and was thus elevated to godhood, as his father before him?

5)...Elohim is Mormon's heavenly father who lived with many wives on a planet called Kolof (spelling)?

6)...there was heavenly meeting convened to decide what to do with all of these spirit children. They decided to create Earth so spirit children could take on mortal bodies and learn good from evil?

7)...Elohim's sons Lucifer and Jesus (making them brothers) were there. Lucifer wanted to be the savior and wanted to force everyone into godhood. Jesus wanted to give them a choice. Jesus's plan was accepted?

8)...Lucifer got mad; got 1/3 of the spirits to side with him and started a war. Lucifer was expelled becoming Satan; his followers= demons?

9)...those who remained neutral during the battle were cursed with dark skin?

10)...Elohim and one of his wives came to earth as Adam and Eve to start human race?

11)...years later, Elohim traveled to have sex with the virgin Mary in order to provide Jesus with a physical body?

12)...Orson Pratt taught that Jesus had at least 3 wives (Mary, Martha, and Mary Magdalene) with whom he had children before crufixition.?


13)... At resurrection, Jesus traveled to Americas to teach the Indians, who are Israelites?

14) in 421 AD, dark skinned Indian Israelites (Lamenites) destroyed the white skinned (Nephites) in battles?

15)...Nephites records were recorded on gold plates adn buried by Moroni on Kimorah?

16)...1400 years after that, Joseph Smith found these plates?

17)...Smith had visions telling him to organize the Mormon church because all Christian creeds were an obination?

18)...Mormons are told to live by a strict financial and moral code, perform temple rituals for themselves and for the dead, with the hope of proving worthiness to become a god?

19)...Mormons believe they will stand before the judgement seat of Jesus, Joseph Smith, and Elohim?

20)...those Mormons who were sealed in eternal marriage cermonies believe they will become gods in a celestial kingdom of their own, rule other planets, and have spirit children of their own?

21)...Mormons believe that Smith has done more than any other man, including Jesus?

22)...Smith died as a martyr, shed his blood, so that we (Mormons) can become gods too?

Please make whatever corrections needed to clarify Mormon positions on these points made in the video.

qwertyUser is Offline

Posts:139


08/04/2008 10:04 PM Alert 

I can't believe you actually want to have a discussion around this cartoon. Sorry, but when I heard them use the phrase "endless celestial sex" that's when their credibility went way out the window.

qwertyUser is Offline

Posts:139


08/04/2008 10:23 PM Alert 

itsa:

So, when I moved here, it was important to me to get an understanding of what my neighbor believed and how it was different from what I believed. WHY? So, that I could know the false doctrine when I heard it and be able to teach it to my children.

I'm just curious itsa. Would you let your children play with my children if you knew I was Mormon? I'm fine with the idea of teaching children what you believe to be true, but do you also teach them to be tolerant and accepting of other's beliefs even if they disagree with them? I truely hope you do.

BionicbunnyUser is Offline

Posts:594


08/04/2008 10:27 PM Alert 
I have heard many (not all) of the things mentioned in this video, discussed on this forum and also in a couple of the books that I have read. Sometimes it isn't so much what is said as it is the way that it is said.
I actually wouldn't mind a quick T or F in regards to itsa's list of 22. Her list seems concise and to the point.
moinmoinUser is Offline

Posts:413


08/04/2008 11:03 PM Alert 
I don't have a fast enough connection speed to view a video, but from the description and itsa's list, it is almost certainly derived from Ed Decker and Dave Hunt's "The Godmakers." Anti-Mormon apologetics has refined its message a great deal since the "Godmakers" days, and most anti-Mormons whom I would consider to be in some fashion effective distance themselves as much as possible from it and their tactics. You all who think that this is a compelling "cartoon" (what in the world? a cartoon? and if memory serves me, it's that one with really cheesy pictures of the preexistence and really hokey music. Pixar, it ain't) should do some introspection and ask yourself if you aren't guilty of bearing false witness by perpetuating such stuff, even if indirectly.

The God Makers was characterized by the US National Council of Christians and Jews as follows:

"The Godmakers"...does not, in our opinion, fairly portray the Mormon Church, Mormon belief, or Mormon history. It makes extensive use of 'half-truth', faulty generalizations, erroneous interpretations, and sensationalism…not reflective of the genuine spirit of the Mormon faith.... It appears to us to be a basically unfair and untruthful presentation of what Mormons really believe and practice.
— National Council of Christians and Jews, "Programs in Pluralism," April 1994

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/nccj.htm

I'll post my brief responses to itsa's list some other time (I promised my wife that I'd be in bed by eleven, so I need to hurry!) Right off the bat, I can correct one item easily.

21)...Mormons believe that Smith has done more than any other man, including Jesus?
I don't know if this was sloppy typing, or if it truly represents the "cartoon's" contents (I still am trying to come to terms with some of you taking a cartoon seriously, especially if it's as bad as the one I think it is). Section 135, written after Joseph Smith's murder at the age of 38, and accepted as scripture, reads:

"Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it." (Doctrine and Covenants 135:3)

You'll note that this is the exact opposite of itsa's "including Jesus." This sort of fasle witness (whether intentional or due to sloppiness or indifference, it makes little difference in people's impressions based on a false witness) is un-Christian in the extreme.
love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:486

08/04/2008 11:31 PM Alert 

I have no reason to lie about anything.  Why would you think I would lie?  I have not seen the video before.  There are so many things out there against the LDS church - MOST of them I have not seen before.  The tone of the video was poor, there were several lies mixed with truth - just like I said.  Now, whether you believe me when I say they are lies is YOUR choice, however, I have no reason to lie about it.  I DO have reason to be honest, and that is so when someone comes along and reads this and wants to know the truth about what we believe - they will have it.

1)        Does Mormonism teach that trillions of planets scattered throughout the cosmos were ruled by gods who were once human?

True. However, we do not IN ANY WAY worship any other gods or know anything more about them.

2) ...that an unidentified god & goddess wife had a spirit child named Elohim?

This in not a specific teaching, however, it does fit within the belief. That said, God, would have been born in the same way as Jesus – meaning, His Father was a god, and his mother???? Well, we do not believe Mary was a goddess. . . . nor that God had sex with her.

3)...teach that Elohim was born to human parents, who gave him a physical body?

See the above. 

4)...through obedience to Mormon teaching, Elohim proved himself worthy and was thus elevated to godhood, as his father before him?

This is a very confusing statement. We believe Christ followed in His father’s footsteps. . . Elohim is not Jesus. We do not know that God followed in His father’s footsteps – but it would make sense – So far we really are taught very little to nothing about any of these things. . .

5)...Elohim is Mormon's heavenly father who lived with many wives on a planet called Kolof (spelling)?

FALSE. Elohim is God. Mormon was a prophet. We do not know AT ALL how many wives God has. We do know He has one. . . I stated this before – we know this through revelation. The topic has been discussed before.

The teaching of Kolob is not one that I ever think about.  I believe it is "East of Kolob"  but I don't know.  Either way, it is the same as saying God lives in Heaven - which is also true.

6)...there was heavenly meeting convened to decide what to do with all of these spirit children. They decided to create Earth so spirit children could take on mortal bodies and learn good from evil?

TRUE

7)...Elohim's sons Lucifer and Jesus (making them brothers) were there. Lucifer wanted to be the savior and wanted to force everyone into godhood. Jesus wanted to give them a choice. Jesus's plan was accepted?
TRUE

8)...Lucifer got mad; got 1/3 of the spirits to side with him and started a war. Lucifer was expelled becoming Satan; his followers= demons?
TRUE – demons – evil spirits, Satan’s followers – we don’t usually use the term demons . . .

9)...those who remained neutral during the battle were cursed with dark skin?

FALSE – *I* believe there were only two decisions made then: to follow Christ or to follow Satan. There were no neutral parties. There were spirits who were more valiant in their cause, however as I stated previously – how valiant we were did not determine our skin color or to whom we were born.

10)...Elohim and one of his wives came to earth as Adam and Eve to start human race?

FALSE – God did not live on earth as Adam – He never was Adam. Adam and Eve were different spirits than God, Christ, or God’s wife.

11)...years later, Elohim traveled to have sex with the virgin Mary in order to provide Jesus with a physical body?

FALSE. (Of course, we keep telling you this, and you keep telling us we aren’t being honest with you about our belief.) We believe, as other religions do, that Mary remained a virgin. We believe Jesus is ½ his father (God) and ½ his mother (Mary) We believe God can and does work miracles and this was a miracle. 

12)...Orson Pratt taught that Jesus had at least 3 wives (Mary, Martha, and Mary Magdalene) with whom he had children before crufixition.?

Honestly, I don’t know if Orson Pratt tried to say this or not. But I DO know it is not a teaching of the church. Orson Pratt left the church. While the statement may be true – what it implies about the Church is not.   That being said, there is no teaching on whether Christ was married or not. Perhaps He was, perhaps he wasn’t. To say this is a teaching of the gospel – is a FALLACY.

13)... At resurrection, Jesus traveled to Americas to teach the Indians, who are Israelites?
TRUE

14) in 421 AD, dark skinned Indian Israelites (Lamenites) destroyed the white skinned (Nephites) in battles?

The Lamanites and Nephites. . . . early on in the Book of Mormon we are told Laman and Lemuel and their followers had a mark placed upon them - it was placed there to make it easier to tell them apart.  A bit farther on, Mormon (the editor so to speak) tells us those who were followers of God he called Nephites and those who where NOT he called Lamanites.  There are also stories of righteous Lamanites in the scriptures as well.  So to while the "whites were killed off and the 'dark-skinned' Lamanites were left" is true to an extent, that statement shows a stiff bigotry that does not exist. 


15)...Nephites records were recorded on gold plates adn buried by Moroni on Kimorah?

TRUE

16)...1400 years after that, Joseph Smith found these plates?

Joseph Smith was told by the Angel Moroni where to find the plates – he did not just happen upon them.

17)...Smith had visions telling him to organize the Mormon church because all Christian creeds were an obination?

TRUE

18)...Mormons are told to live by a strict financial and moral code, perform temple rituals for themselves and for the dead, with the hope of proving worthiness to become a god?

We do nothing in hopes of becoming gods – we do it in hopes of returning to live with our Father in Heaven. There is teachings that we may become as God is. It is one statement long and mostly never quoted. However, if you come to a service, you will likely hear, “So we can return to live with our Heavenly Father” or “So we can be like Him.”

19)...Mormons believe they will stand before the judgement seat of Jesus, Joseph Smith, and Elohim?

I don’t worry about this. I know Joseph Smith along with other prophets will be seated there – Jesus and Heavenly Father are my judges – I don’t worry about the rest. I know this has been discussed before with better explanations.

20)...those Mormons who were sealed in eternal marriage cermonies believe they will become gods in a celestial kingdom of their own, rule other planets, and have spirit children of their own?

Didn’t you forget the part about all of us living plural marriage? We believe celestial marriage is necessary to live with Heavenly Father. We believe we can become like Him, which includes the possibility of becoming gods. We believe we will ALWAYS worship God. We do NOT believe everyone who is in the Celestial Kingdom will practice plural marriage.   

21)...Mormons believe that Smith has done more than any other man, including Jesus?

FALSE – nothing more to say – this is simply a lie.

22)...Smith died as a martyr, shed his blood, so that we (Mormons) can become gods too?

FALSE. Jesus died, and shed His blood so we can return to live with Heavenly Father. Joseph Smith died because he loved Heavenly Father. It was a martyrdom, true, but it had NOTHING to do with our salvations ;  only Jesus paid that price.

BionicbunnyUser is Offline

Posts:594


08/05/2008 8:11 AM Alert 
love@hm, thank you for going through that list! I know how frustrating it can be when you feel you need to defend your faith. Does it ever make you wonder though, about if what you believe is true? I mean, these threads can be great in some ways. Hearing different sides with different oppinions and different explainations. Has it made you reexamine your faith at all? Has it made you want to learn more about other Christian faiths? I know I am enjoying learning about LDS.
RichTigUser is Offline

Posts:0

08/05/2008 8:18 AM Alert 

Where are the gold plates now?  Are they in Salt Lake City?

love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:486

08/05/2008 8:40 AM Alert 
Bionicbunny,

Thank you for realizing how difficult it is having to defend such things.

No, none of this makes me wonder about whether what I believe is true or not. Mostly, I gain a stronger testimony for it. Many times it has expanded my scripture study and I show up to church ready to discuss many finer points of the gospel. I actually attend the Gospel Priniciples class - which is Sunday School for new members and investigators. For a while there, I was involved in discussions online just before the lesson. I actually laughed and and talked about it with the teacher. I was able to give insight in a lot of areas because of my study. But I have never questioned it - I have had too many personal experiences to ever question it; I simply know it is true, so while I may run across something I don't understand well, I try to learn more on the topic, but I always know the teaching is true.

I do like learning about what other's believe. I have learned a few things that has helped me to understand where other religions are coming from. For the most part though, I am able to see where it comes from, why it is there, and respect that fact it is a belief different than my own. I only have a difficult time when people cannot give that same respect to me; I openly admit, I struggle with that.

Some of the things I have learned about:

The trinity (although I admit I still don't understand it much, but I have been following JAG's thread about it trying to gain more insight - )

Angels (beings that are not human in nature - we believe they are human spirits and resurrected beings)

Adam and Eve (sin vs transgression)

Works and Faith (I actually have found varying positions from MS Christians on this point - some admit simple things like reading scriptures etc would be, in a way, necessary - while others believe you could rob a bank, but if you say "I believe" then salvation is yours. . . )

I am certain there are more.

So, back to reexamining my faith: Has it made you reexamine yours? I'm guessing about as much as I have mine. I'm OK with that. My point in being here and posting is to answer questions so the answers come for a GOOD source and to correct mis-truths. Sometimes that gets really tiring and I disappear for a while. I DO like learning about other beliefs - it helps me relate better. What I find quite often though, is that MS Christianity varies so much it is hard to get a grasp on it. I need to study it out with each separate denomination - otherwise there is really only one thing they all seem to truly have in common - that Christ died on the cross for our salvation. . . most of the time the trinity is close to the same, but that is so confusing to me - I can't tell you if it really is or not
itsadryheatUser is Offline

Posts:233

08/05/2008 8:46 AM Alert 
My children don't know which of their friends come from LDS families. I know. When I said that when we moved here, I needed to learn about the LDS religion...that's exactly what I meant. I needed to know FOR my own knowledge. When my children are old enough to understand these differences, then we can have that discussion.

Don't try to paint me as intolerant. You do not know me. You know what I say on this website because I am vocal about making distinguishment between LDS and Christianity...I would hate for people to be confused with the two.

Now, I am going to read love@hm responses to those questions.
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 1 of 41234 > >>

Forums > General Discussion > Religion > Cartoon on Mormonism



ActiveForums 3.6